Discussion:
Lucas horns
(too old to reply)
Davey
2017-05-31 18:06:15 UTC
Permalink
There is a pair of Lucas horns on e-bay at the moment:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/132210307619?ul_noapp=true

The domes are not chromed, although the trumpets are, and they have mesh
in them, but still, asking £250 is a bit hopeful, I think. There again,
if somebody bites, why not try?
--
Davey.
Dave Plowman (News)
2017-05-31 18:44:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davey
http://www.ebay.com/itm/132210307619?ul_noapp=true
The domes are not chromed, although the trumpets are, and they have mesh
in them, but still, asking £250 is a bit hopeful, I think. There again,
if somebody bites, why not try?
Crikey. Just about every 50s car had those. Morris Oxford etc. Painted
black, though. Chroming the whole thing used might not be easy as much of
it is a casting.

I've got a pair on my SD1.
--
*There's no place like www.home.com *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Davey
2017-05-31 20:32:31 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 31 May 2017 19:44:55 +0100
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Davey
http://www.ebay.com/itm/132210307619?ul_noapp=true
The domes are not chromed, although the trumpets are, and they have
mesh in them, but still, asking £250 is a bit hopeful, I think.
There again, if somebody bites, why not try?
Crikey. Just about every 50s car had those. Morris Oxford etc. Painted
black, though. Chroming the whole thing used might not be easy as
much of it is a casting.
I've got a pair on my SD1.
It's the dome and the trumpet that are normally chromed. I also have a
pair, and I have a source for them for my otherwise functional but
non-chromed units.
--
Davey.
Indy Jess John
2017-05-31 21:51:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davey
On Wed, 31 May 2017 19:44:55 +0100
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Davey
http://www.ebay.com/itm/132210307619?ul_noapp=true
The domes are not chromed, although the trumpets are, and they have
mesh in them, but still, asking £250 is a bit hopeful, I think.
There again, if somebody bites, why not try?
Crikey. Just about every 50s car had those. Morris Oxford etc. Painted
black, though. Chroming the whole thing used might not be easy as
much of it is a casting.
I've got a pair on my SD1.
It's the dome and the trumpet that are normally chromed. I also have a
pair, and I have a source for them for my otherwise functional but
non-chromed units.
My 3-Litre Rover I owned in the 1970s had a tuned pair (Doh and Soh, I
think) You didn't really hoot, just played a chord. :-)

Jim
Dave Plowman (News)
2017-05-31 23:24:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Indy Jess John
Post by Davey
On Wed, 31 May 2017 19:44:55 +0100
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Davey
http://www.ebay.com/itm/132210307619?ul_noapp=true
The domes are not chromed, although the trumpets are, and they have
mesh in them, but still, asking £250 is a bit hopeful, I think.
There again, if somebody bites, why not try?
Crikey. Just about every 50s car had those. Morris Oxford etc. Painted
black, though. Chroming the whole thing used might not be easy as
much of it is a casting.
I've got a pair on my SD1.
It's the dome and the trumpet that are normally chromed. I also have a
pair, and I have a source for them for my otherwise functional but
non-chromed units.
My 3-Litre Rover I owned in the 1970s had a tuned pair (Doh and Soh, I
think) You didn't really hoot, just played a chord. :-)
Yes. Somewhere round the 60s, they were replaced with much smaller units
which didn't need a relay. Higher pitched sound.
--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Davey
2017-06-01 22:53:59 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 01 Jun 2017 00:24:56 +0100
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Indy Jess John
Post by Davey
On Wed, 31 May 2017 19:44:55 +0100
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Davey
http://www.ebay.com/itm/132210307619?ul_noapp=true
The domes are not chromed, although the trumpets are, and they
have mesh in them, but still, asking £250 is a bit hopeful, I
think. There again, if somebody bites, why not try?
Crikey. Just about every 50s car had those. Morris Oxford etc.
Painted black, though. Chroming the whole thing used might not
be easy as much of it is a casting.
I've got a pair on my SD1.
It's the dome and the trumpet that are normally chromed. I also
have a pair, and I have a source for them for my otherwise
functional but non-chromed units.
My 3-Litre Rover I owned in the 1970s had a tuned pair (Doh and
Soh, I think) You didn't really hoot, just played a chord. :-)
Yes. Somewhere round the 60s, they were replaced with much smaller
units which didn't need a relay. Higher pitched sound.
Any idea what current the big ones draw? I have seen a car with them,
and no relay. If you don't keep your hand on the horn button for a full
minute, it might not be so bad.
--
Davey.
Dave Plowman (News)
2017-06-01 23:42:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davey
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Yes. Somewhere round the 60s, they were replaced with much smaller
units which didn't need a relay. Higher pitched sound.
Any idea what current the big ones draw? I have seen a car with them,
and no relay. If you don't keep your hand on the horn button for a full
minute, it might not be so bad.
It's something like 20 amps. Cheaper to use a relay than a meaty horn push.
--
*Gun Control: Use both hands.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Davey
2017-06-02 00:00:34 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 00:42:42 +0100
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Davey
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Yes. Somewhere round the 60s, they were replaced with much smaller
units which didn't need a relay. Higher pitched sound.
Any idea what current the big ones draw? I have seen a car with
them, and no relay. If you don't keep your hand on the horn button
for a full minute, it might not be so bad.
It's something like 20 amps. Cheaper to use a relay than a meaty horn push.
Yikes! 20A each? My DMM won't even measure that high!

Do you remember those 'Town and Country' selector switches?
--
Davey.
Indy Jess John
2017-06-02 06:32:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davey
On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 00:42:42 +0100
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
It's something like 20 amps. Cheaper to use a relay than a meaty horn push.
Yikes! 20A each? My DMM won't even measure that high!
I can't remember a horn relay on my Rover (but I didn't look for the
presence or absence of one either), but I do remember that the internals
of a horn are configured like an old-fashioned bell or buzzer. The
electromagnet attracted an arm connected to the diaphragm, and as the
diaphragm moved it broke the electrical contact so that the diaphragm
returned to its resting position which made the circuit again and the
electromagnet was energised again. The cycle repeated while the horn
was pushed. The diameter of each diaphragm and the length of the
(coiled) sound trumpet determined the note of the horn.

The wire to the horn was reasonably thick, and would probably carry 20A
if necessary, but because of the intermittent use of the power, it would
only need to do so for half of the time the horn was sounding.
Averaging current over time, you are probably looking at 20A the pair,
with a few instantaneous higher readings. Also, given that the wiring
used in the 1960s tended to be over-engineered, a wire looking capable
of passing 20A was probably only be required to pass 15A max because the
manufacturer wouldn't want the wiring loom to carry a warm wire.

Jim
Davey
2017-06-02 10:00:15 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 07:32:17 +0100
Post by Indy Jess John
Post by Davey
On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 00:42:42 +0100
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
It's something like 20 amps. Cheaper to use a relay than a meaty horn push.
Yikes! 20A each? My DMM won't even measure that high!
I can't remember a horn relay on my Rover (but I didn't look for the
presence or absence of one either), but I do remember that the
internals of a horn are configured like an old-fashioned bell or
buzzer. The electromagnet attracted an arm connected to the
diaphragm, and as the diaphragm moved it broke the electrical contact
so that the diaphragm returned to its resting position which made the
circuit again and the electromagnet was energised again. The cycle
repeated while the horn was pushed. The diameter of each diaphragm
and the length of the (coiled) sound trumpet determined the note of
the horn.
The wire to the horn was reasonably thick, and would probably carry
20A if necessary, but because of the intermittent use of the power,
it would only need to do so for half of the time the horn was
sounding. Averaging current over time, you are probably looking at
20A the pair, with a few instantaneous higher readings. Also, given
that the wiring used in the 1960s tended to be over-engineered, a
wire looking capable of passing 20A was probably only be required to
pass 15A max because the manufacturer wouldn't want the wiring loom
to carry a warm wire.
Jim
Excellent points, indeed.
--
Davey.
Dave Plowman (News)
2017-06-02 12:53:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Indy Jess John
The wire to the horn was reasonably thick, and would probably carry 20A
if necessary, but because of the intermittent use of the power, it would
only need to do so for half of the time the horn was sounding.
Using a too thin wire would cause voltage drop and reduce the output from
the horn.
Post by Indy Jess John
Averaging current over time, you are probably looking at 20A the pair,
with a few instantaneous higher readings. Also, given that the wiring
used in the 1960s tended to be over-engineered, a wire looking capable
of passing 20A was probably only be required to pass 15A max because the
manufacturer wouldn't want the wiring loom to carry a warm wire.
Remember older cable had much thicker insulation than modern stuff, so not
so easy to guess the size.

But in the old days, cars had often only two fuses. And since the fuse
protects the wiring, all the wiring downstream of the fuse had to be
capable of carrying that current. So could be much larger than with
individual fuses. The days when copper was cheap. ;-)
--
*For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Dave Plowman (News)
2017-06-02 09:57:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davey
On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 00:42:42 +0100
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Davey
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Yes. Somewhere round the 60s, they were replaced with much smaller
units which didn't need a relay. Higher pitched sound.
Any idea what current the big ones draw? I have seen a car with
them, and no relay. If you don't keep your hand on the horn button
for a full minute, it might not be so bad.
It's something like 20 amps. Cheaper to use a relay than a meaty horn push.
Yikes! 20A each? My DMM won't even measure that high!
No - about 20 amp total for two. Most common car relays are 30 amp.
Post by Davey
Do you remember those 'Town and Country' selector switches?
To switch off one of the horns?
--
*Arkansas State Motto: Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Laugh.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Davey
2017-06-02 11:18:45 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:57:19 +0100
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Davey
On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 00:42:42 +0100
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Davey
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Yes. Somewhere round the 60s, they were replaced with much
smaller units which didn't need a relay. Higher pitched sound.
Any idea what current the big ones draw? I have seen a car with
them, and no relay. If you don't keep your hand on the horn
button for a full minute, it might not be so bad.
It's something like 20 amps. Cheaper to use a relay than a meaty horn push.
Yikes! 20A each? My DMM won't even measure that high!
No - about 20 amp total for two. Most common car relays are 30 amp.
Post by Davey
Do you remember those 'Town and Country' selector switches?
To switch off one of the horns?
Yes.

There is a wonderful cartoon by Brockbank, the title is 'Citroen
Pressé'.
Hopefully this will get to it.
http://www.russellbrockbank.com/shop/rolls/brockbank-81/
--
Davey.
Dave Plowman (News)
2017-06-02 12:49:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davey
Yikes! 20A each? My DMM won't even measure that high!
DVMs ain't ideal for current measuring on cars where current can be high -
and maybe a switch on surge too. The fuse in my Fluke costs a fortune to
replace. ;-)

An old fashioned meter type ammeter is more robust.
--
*I don't have a solution, but I admire your problem. *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Davey
2017-06-09 10:57:52 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 31 May 2017 19:06:15 +0100
Post by Davey
http://www.ebay.com/itm/132210307619?ul_noapp=true
The domes are not chromed, although the trumpets are, and they have
mesh in them, but still, asking £250 is a bit hopeful, I think. There
again, if somebody bites, why not try?
Ended, with 0 bids, I see. What a surprise.
--
Davey.
Indy Jess John
2017-06-09 12:55:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davey
On Wed, 31 May 2017 19:06:15 +0100
Post by Davey
http://www.ebay.com/itm/132210307619?ul_noapp=true
The domes are not chromed, although the trumpets are, and they have
mesh in them, but still, asking £250 is a bit hopeful, I think. There
again, if somebody bites, why not try?
Ended, with 0 bids, I see. What a surprise.
Perhaps now they will list them with a decimal point in the price :-)

Jim
Davey
2017-06-09 13:06:12 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 13:55:53 +0100
Post by Indy Jess John
Post by Davey
On Wed, 31 May 2017 19:06:15 +0100
Post by Davey
http://www.ebay.com/itm/132210307619?ul_noapp=true
The domes are not chromed, although the trumpets are, and they have
mesh in them, but still, asking £250 is a bit hopeful, I think.
There again, if somebody bites, why not try?
Ended, with 0 bids, I see. What a surprise.
Perhaps now they will list them with a decimal point in the price :-)
Jim
That would be a bargain. One can live in hope...
--
Davey.
Davey
2017-06-11 12:51:34 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 13:55:53 +0100
Post by Indy Jess John
Post by Davey
On Wed, 31 May 2017 19:06:15 +0100
Post by Davey
http://www.ebay.com/itm/132210307619?ul_noapp=true
The domes are not chromed, although the trumpets are, and they have
mesh in them, but still, asking £250 is a bit hopeful, I think.
There again, if somebody bites, why not try?
Ended, with 0 bids, I see. What a surprise.
Perhaps now they will list them with a decimal point in the price :-)
Jim
They're back, at £300 this time. I sense a problem here...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/132223086829?ul_noapp=true
--
Davey.
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