London ULEZ.

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
The end of old car ownership for me. The extended ultra low emissions zone
is being extended to near here in October. And most of the journeys I do
would involve entering it, or a long detour.
Cars over 40 years old are exempt. Mine is 1985.
So London will be left to all those diesels with Bosch injection which
were fiddled to pass the EU lab tests, so fine. And fail miserably in real
world use. Likely hundreds of thousands.

You could aim for something even older.

I have a Triumph, 45 years old and surprisingly low mileage (65,000 from
new). Spares are readily available from a mail order company in Lincoln.

I also have a 55 year old Morris Minor. Spares specific to the Minor are
readily available from a company in Bristol, and the A-Series engine has
spares easily available from other suppliers.

I chose both for spares availability. The Triumph (2.5PI) I bought in
2001. The only problem with the PI is that it uses the lead in leaded
petrol to lubricate the injection system. There is a mail order service
selling tetraethyl lead by the case which is enough to convert 100
gallons, and which I add to the tank then fill with super-unleaded. The
similar Triumph 2.5 TC doesn't have that problem if you don't want to
bother with adding lead.

The Morris I bought in 2008 (132,000 on the clock then and I have no
idea if that is genuine, but with a recon engine fitted 4 years
earlier), because the Triumph prefers long journeys and is happy at
70MPH on a motorway, but starts a bit reluctantly if only used for short
trips too often. The Morris is quite happy with local shopping trips
but isn't an ideal car for long journeys: not really suited to sustained
speeds above 60MPH and the suspension is a bit harsh.

Food for thought.

Jim

Indy Jess John

2021-01-13 10:57:44 UTC

Post by Indy Jess John
You could aim for something even older.

As an afterthought - if you like your current car enough to want to keep
it, it will be 40 years old in 5 years.

If you have somewhere to store it and SORN it, you are only looking for
a "make do" for those 5 years rather than a long term replacement.

Jim

Abandoned_Trolley

2022-03-19 10:43:24 UTC

You could aim for something even older.
I have a Triumph, 45 years old and surprisingly low mileage (65,000 from
new). Spares are readily available from a mail order company in Lincoln.
I also have a 55 year old Morris Minor. Spares specific to the Minor are
readily available from a company in Bristol, and the A-Series engine has
spares easily available from other suppliers.
I chose both for spares availability. The Triumph (2.5PI) I bought in
2001. The only problem with the PI is that it uses the lead in leaded
petrol to lubricate the injection system. There is a mail order service
selling tetraethyl lead by the case which is enough to convert 100
gallons, and which I add to the tank then fill with super-unleaded. The
similar Triumph 2.5 TC doesn't have that problem if you don't want to
bother with adding lead.
The Morris I bought in 2008 (132,000 on the clock then and I have no
idea if that is genuine, but with a recon engine fitted 4 years
earlier), because the Triumph prefers long journeys and is happy at
70MPH on a motorway, but starts a bit reluctantly if only used for short
trips too often. The Morris is quite happy with local shopping trips
but isn't an ideal car for long journeys: not really suited to sustained
speeds above 60MPH and the suspension is a bit harsh.
Food for thought.
Jim

All valid points - plus you can wave goodbye to depreciation, along with
Road Tax

--
random signature text inserted here

Indy Jess John

2022-03-19 11:35:25 UTC

You could aim for something even older.
I have a Triumph, 45 years old and surprisingly low mileage (65,000 from
new). Spares are readily available from a mail order company in Lincoln.
I also have a 55 year old Morris Minor. Spares specific to the Minor are
readily available from a company in Bristol, and the A-Series engine has
spares easily available from other suppliers.
I chose both for spares availability. The Triumph (2.5PI) I bought in
2001. The only problem with the PI is that it uses the lead in leaded
petrol to lubricate the injection system. There is a mail order service
selling tetraethyl lead by the case which is enough to convert 100
gallons, and which I add to the tank then fill with super-unleaded. The
similar Triumph 2.5 TC doesn't have that problem if you don't want to
bother with adding lead.
The Morris I bought in 2008 (132,000 on the clock then and I have no
idea if that is genuine, but with a recon engine fitted 4 years
earlier), because the Triumph prefers long journeys and is happy at
70MPH on a motorway, but starts a bit reluctantly if only used for short
trips too often. The Morris is quite happy with local shopping trips
but isn't an ideal car for long journeys: not really suited to sustained
speeds above 60MPH and the suspension is a bit harsh.
Food for thought.
Jim

All valid points - plus you can wave goodbye to depreciation, along with
Road Tax

A later observation - I tried putting the latest E10 petrol in the
Morris, and it became a real pig to start from cold. It wasn't too bad
if used every one or two days, but if I left it longer than that it
didn't try to start for ages and when it did it lumped over on a couple
of cylinders for a few seconds before the rest joined in. Once initially
running it drove OK and it restarted on the first compression stroke, so
it had to be the fuel and not the mechanics.

Whatever extra is in the E10 seems to sink to the bottom of the float
chamber so the engine has to wind over long enough to clear that out
before it gets a high enough input of burnable petrol to fire up. I have
changed to using Super Unleaded (which is E5) just to fix the starting
problem. That is quite a bit dearer though.

Jim

Dave Plowman (News)

2022-03-19 12:11:51 UTC

You could aim for something even older.
I have a Triumph, 45 years old and surprisingly low mileage (65,000 from
new). Spares are readily available from a mail order company in Lincoln.
I also have a 55 year old Morris Minor. Spares specific to the Minor are
readily available from a company in Bristol, and the A-Series engine has
spares easily available from other suppliers.
I chose both for spares availability. The Triumph (2.5PI) I bought in
2001. The only problem with the PI is that it uses the lead in leaded
petrol to lubricate the injection system. There is a mail order service
selling tetraethyl lead by the case which is enough to convert 100
gallons, and which I add to the tank then fill with super-unleaded. The
similar Triumph 2.5 TC doesn't have that problem if you don't want to
bother with adding lead.
The Morris I bought in 2008 (132,000 on the clock then and I have no
idea if that is genuine, but with a recon engine fitted 4 years
earlier), because the Triumph prefers long journeys and is happy at
70MPH on a motorway, but starts a bit reluctantly if only used for short
trips too often. The Morris is quite happy with local shopping trips
but isn't an ideal car for long journeys: not really suited to sustained
speeds above 60MPH and the suspension is a bit harsh.
Food for thought.
Jim

All valid points - plus you can wave goodbye to depreciation, along with
Road Tax

A later observation - I tried putting the latest E10 petrol in the
Morris, and it became a real pig to start from cold. It wasn't too bad
if used every one or two days, but if I left it longer than that it
didn't try to start for ages and when it did it lumped over on a couple
of cylinders for a few seconds before the rest joined in. Once initially
running it drove OK and it restarted on the first compression stroke, so
it had to be the fuel and not the mechanics.
Whatever extra is in the E10 seems to sink to the bottom of the float
chamber so the engine has to wind over long enough to clear that out
before it gets a high enough input of burnable petrol to fire up. I have
changed to using Super Unleaded (which is E5) just to fix the starting
problem. That is quite a bit dearer though.

My SD1 seems OK on E10. Although it is injection.

Will wait until the spring proper to decide whether to keep it or not.

--
*Who are these kids and why are they calling me Mom?

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Indy Jess John

2022-03-19 21:25:14 UTC

You could aim for something even older.
I have a Triumph, 45 years old and surprisingly low mileage (65,000 from
new). Spares are readily available from a mail order company in Lincoln.
I also have a 55 year old Morris Minor. Spares specific to the Minor are
readily available from a company in Bristol, and the A-Series engine has
spares easily available from other suppliers.
I chose both for spares availability. The Triumph (2.5PI) I bought in
2001. The only problem with the PI is that it uses the lead in leaded
petrol to lubricate the injection system. There is a mail order service
selling tetraethyl lead by the case which is enough to convert 100
gallons, and which I add to the tank then fill with super-unleaded. The
similar Triumph 2.5 TC doesn't have that problem if you don't want to
bother with adding lead.
The Morris I bought in 2008 (132,000 on the clock then and I have no
idea if that is genuine, but with a recon engine fitted 4 years
earlier), because the Triumph prefers long journeys and is happy at
70MPH on a motorway, but starts a bit reluctantly if only used for short
trips too often. The Morris is quite happy with local shopping trips
but isn't an ideal car for long journeys: not really suited to sustained
speeds above 60MPH and the suspension is a bit harsh.
Food for thought.
Jim

All valid points - plus you can wave goodbye to depreciation, along with
Road Tax

A later observation - I tried putting the latest E10 petrol in the
Morris, and it became a real pig to start from cold. It wasn't too bad
if used every one or two days, but if I left it longer than that it
didn't try to start for ages and when it did it lumped over on a couple
of cylinders for a few seconds before the rest joined in. Once initially
running it drove OK and it restarted on the first compression stroke, so
it had to be the fuel and not the mechanics.
Whatever extra is in the E10 seems to sink to the bottom of the float
chamber so the engine has to wind over long enough to clear that out
before it gets a high enough input of burnable petrol to fire up. I have
changed to using Super Unleaded (which is E5) just to fix the starting
problem. That is quite a bit dearer though.

My SD1 seems OK on E10. Although it is injection.
Will wait until the spring proper to decide whether to keep it or not.

Injection systems are OK because the fuel circulates. It is the cars
with carburettors where the fuel in the float chamber separates over
time that have the problem with E10.

I found a list of vehicles which may have problems with E10, and all of
them were carburettor models.

In your position, I would be inclined to put the SDI on SORN and get a
cheap low emission runabout for a couple of years for use in the ULEZ.
If you really like the SDI you will regret selling it and then finding
how much more it would cost you to buy it back a few years later. (I
sold a wonderful P5 Rover when a new wife and a big mortgage meant I
couldn't afford 16mpg commuting to work daily in rush hour traffic. When
such a car once more became a practical proposition, the price of one in
the condition of the one I sold was nearly 50 times what I sold mine for.)

In London you won't need more than 1000cc and something like a Kia or
Skoda or a small Renault Clio that is 5-10 years old should be quite
cheap and reasonably sound mechanically provided you avoid rusty ones.
You can always put the SDI back on the road occasionally for trips
outside the ULEZ to keep it running nicely between now and 2025.

Jim

Dave Plowman (News)

2022-03-20 14:07:27 UTC

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
The end of old car ownership for me. The extended ultra low
emissions zone is being extended to near here in October. And most
of the journeys I do would involve entering it, or a long detour.
Cars over 40 years old are exempt. Mine is 1985.
So London will be left to all those diesels with Bosch injection
which were fiddled to pass the EU lab tests, so fine. And fail
miserably in real world use. Likely hundreds of thousands.

You could aim for something even older.
I have a Triumph, 45 years old and surprisingly low mileage (65,000
from new). Spares are readily available from a mail order company
in Lincoln.
I also have a 55 year old Morris Minor. Spares specific to the
Minor are readily available from a company in Bristol, and the
A-Series engine has spares easily available from other suppliers.
I chose both for spares availability. The Triumph (2.5PI) I bought
in 2001. The only problem with the PI is that it uses the lead in
leaded petrol to lubricate the injection system. There is a mail
order service selling tetraethyl lead by the case which is enough
to convert 100 gallons, and which I add to the tank then fill with
super-unleaded. The similar Triumph 2.5 TC doesn't have that
problem if you don't want to bother with adding lead.
The Morris I bought in 2008 (132,000 on the clock then and I have
no idea if that is genuine, but with a recon engine fitted 4 years
earlier), because the Triumph prefers long journeys and is happy at
70MPH on a motorway, but starts a bit reluctantly if only used for
short trips too often. The Morris is quite happy with local
shopping trips but isn't an ideal car for long journeys: not really
suited to sustained speeds above 60MPH and the suspension is a bit
harsh.
Food for thought.
Jim

All valid points - plus you can wave goodbye to depreciation, along
with Road Tax

A later observation - I tried putting the latest E10 petrol in the
Morris, and it became a real pig to start from cold. It wasn't too
bad if used every one or two days, but if I left it longer than that
it didn't try to start for ages and when it did it lumped over on a
couple of cylinders for a few seconds before the rest joined in. Once
initially running it drove OK and it restarted on the first
compression stroke, so it had to be the fuel and not the mechanics.
Whatever extra is in the E10 seems to sink to the bottom of the float
chamber so the engine has to wind over long enough to clear that out
before it gets a high enough input of burnable petrol to fire up. I
have changed to using Super Unleaded (which is E5) just to fix the
starting problem. That is quite a bit dearer though.

My SD1 seems OK on E10. Although it is injection.
Will wait until the spring proper to decide whether to keep it or not.

Yet we are told by the scare merchants it rots petrol tanks and steel fuel
lines? As well as more susceptible flexible hoses and seals?

Post by Indy Jess John
In your position, I would be inclined to put the SDI on SORN and get a
cheap low emission runabout for a couple of years for use in the ULEZ.
If you really like the SDI you will regret selling it and then finding
how much more it would cost you to buy it back a few years later. (I
sold a wonderful P5 Rover when a new wife and a big mortgage meant I
couldn't afford 16mpg commuting to work daily in rush hour traffic. When
such a car once more became a practical proposition, the price of one
in the condition of the one I sold was nearly 50 times what I sold mine
for.)

The SD1 is parked in the street. My daily driver is a two seater open top.
They compliment each other.

Post by Indy Jess John
In London you won't need more than 1000cc and something like a Kia or
Skoda or a small Renault Clio that is 5-10 years old should be quite
cheap and reasonably sound mechanically provided you avoid rusty ones.
You can always put the SDI back on the road occasionally for trips
outside the ULEZ to keep it running nicely between now and 2025.
Jim

--
*When chemists die, they barium.*

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Indy Jess John

2022-03-21 00:12:49 UTC

Post by Indy Jess John
I found a list of vehicles which may have problems with E10, and all of
them were carburettor models.

Yet we are told by the scare merchants it rots petrol tanks and steel fuel
lines? As well as more susceptible flexible hoses and seals?

Common sense indicates that nobody would be stupid enough to add
anything to petrol that would attack steel in petrol tanks, because that
would be a problem for nearly every car on the road. My injection
system runs at 100psi and I can't see any flexible hoses anywhere from
the tank to the injection unit. There might be an element of truth in
the suggestion that seals might rot though.

My Triumph PI started guzzling fuel and an investigation revealed that
it was squirting fuel to pairs of injectors instead of just the one that
it was supposed to be selecting, so that half the fuel was squirted into
a cylinder that couldn't use it. I had the injection unit overhauled
and the people who did it blamed the additive in the super unleaded fuel
that was intended to raise the octane rating. Apparently this was a
known problem of the original rubber seals being rotted by it. I got a
restored injection unit with polypropylene seals instead of the normal
rubber and that has not had a problem since.

Jim

Dave Plowman (News)

2022-03-21 16:50:23 UTC

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Yet we are told by the scare merchants it rots petrol tanks and steel fuel
lines? As well as more susceptible flexible hoses and seals?

Common sense indicates that nobody would be stupid enough to add
anything to petrol that would attack steel in petrol tanks, because that
would be a problem for nearly every car on the road.

Ethanol absorbs water. Water causes steel to rust. Is the theory.

--
*Modulation in all things *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Indy Jess John

2022-03-21 20:30:09 UTC

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Yet we are told by the scare merchants it rots petrol tanks and steel fuel
lines? As well as more susceptible flexible hoses and seals?

Common sense indicates that nobody would be stupid enough to add
anything to petrol that would attack steel in petrol tanks, because that
would be a problem for nearly every car on the road.

Ethanol absorbs water. Water causes steel to rust. Is the theory.

Ah, I see.
The missing component though is oxygen, which combined with water
creates rust. How much oxygen is there likely to be under the surface
of the petrol in the tank?

Jim

Abandoned_Trolley

2022-03-22 09:03:17 UTC